Manufacturing 3D Printing

Webinar Recap: The Future of Manufacturing

Posted August 28th, 2020

Manufacturing business owners want to grow and thrive like any business owner, no matter what the future brings. The COVID-19 global pandemic has made that a truly legendary feat. Supply chain disruptions, operational shifts, and financial consequences are all pressing down on you, making your goals seem insurmountable. They are not. The truth is manufacturing in America can emerge from this pandemic stronger than ever. It will take a strategic plan that addresses your goals for the future AND the pitfalls of the present. That’s why Mobilization Funding & Dare Capital have brought together manufacturing & banking experts to arm you with the information, insights, and tools you need to succeed.

Full transcript below

Cole Harmonson  0:11  Hey everybody, welcome. It’s Cole Harmonson with Dare Capital and you know what time it is for the Dare Capital dialogues this week brought to you along with Mobilization Funding, and Dare capital which both of us provide capital on manufacturing and construction projects. Today, we are joined by Stephen Shang and Robert Conley. They are both longtime entrepreneurs in this space and have a wealth of experience operating, running, growing selling businesses, and today we’re going to talk about what’s going on with the changes in the space regarding pre-COVID, post-COVID and how you can deal with it. So, we’re very excited to have these guys joining us today, we’re going to go ahead and get started with the background. We’re going to start with Mr. Stephen, tell us a little bit about your illustrious background and how you went from Silicon Valley into the current business that you are running today. Thanks for joining us.

Stephen Shang  1:22  So, um, thank you for hosting this. It’s really an honor to be on here. And hello to all the participants, hope everyone’s doing well. So my background, I came out of school, went to a management consultancy, but then got the startup bug and so went to Silicon Valley and started pretty much about seven different companies and raised about $90 million in equity capital pissed it all away and all I have to show for it is a picture of me with blue hair. But in 2002, came back to Austin and said, Look, you know, can we really build a real business? And we thought about a lot of different industries and we saw the portable storage industry is a very interesting space. So, we started dropping storage in 2003. And that was really just buying containers and renting them out for $125 a month or so. My VC friends were joking at the time like, oh, wow, Falcon storage is that gigabyte or terabyte technology? Like, it’s uh cubic feet. But then over time that that portable storage business evolved into what it is today, which is Falcon structures, as we worked with containers, more and more shipping containers, we found that there was a lot of applications for them in building them into workspaces, living spaces, equipment, enclosures. And so, we really transformed the company from just a little portable storage company to now a manufacturing company that serves pretty much the entire US Caribbean, in Africa.

Cole Harmonson  2:42  Wow. That’s great. Thank you for that. Robert, tell us about yourself.

Robert Conley  2:50  ­­I refer to myself as a mutt. (laughs)

Robert Conley  2:55  I bought my first business at 21. Owned it for six years. Just kind of went on to do we help other companies grow. Sales and Marketing is kind of the base of my background. Went back to business school at 37, which is a little bit rare for most people and got what I consider to be a great education. Went on to apply that education with, and I give this gentleman this, like I state his credentials to give him respect and to kind of help folks understand how close to the heartbeat I felt like I was, but I went to work for a gentleman named Dr. Jim Ashton, Jim’s a PhD for MIT in structural mechanics and Harvard Baker scholar. And he started the F16 Fighter program for General Dynamics and went on to produce the most defect-free, on-budget, on-time airplanes that have been produced. And he took that that formulation and kind of created a management framework and tools around that. And when I went to work for Jim, we were doing private equity LBOs, kind of in the industrial space job shop manufacturing. And we applied those tools and principles throughout. And because we were a small group, we did not only the kind of financial engineering, but we worked with executives, took executive positions within the companies, to get them turned. And we typically bought under-managed businesses. So super-cool environment to take that business school knowledge, kind of entrepreneurial background, and then really refine it with a brilliant individual over, you know, a 10-year period. And so, we were industry agnostic as long as it was complicated. And in and so with a gentleman like Jim, he said to me one time he said, I can do most complicated math formulas in the world, Robert, but unfortunately, it’s really not that valuable unless you’re solving that specific problem. He said, because People don’t do complex and they don’t do fast. And so, we typically we’re dumbing down manufacturing complexity into simplicity, which is a challenge. And so, you know, that’s really what I’ve been doing. I just finished a turnaround, my actually partner is doing that. He’s the CEO now. And it still works. It’s very effective. And so that’s quickly how I got to where I am at this moment.

Cole Harmonson  5:30  Awesome. Well, great. We look forward to digging into some of that as we go along here. We’re also going to have an audience poll today. So, I know the audience has been growing and you just joined us. Today we’re again we’re talking about planning for the future in terms of what’s going on in manufacturing and we want you to take full advantage everyone now is Zoom efficient these days. We want you to take full advantage of the chat function, ask questions. We want this to be participatory exercise. So please feel free to, to join in. And we are going to have a poll question here in terms of what you think is the peak of disruption behind us, and maybe not what we wish to have happen. But what we believe is going on Yes, the peak is behind this or no, it’s not or, man, we don’t know you’re not sure. So, feel free to join in that poll. And we’ll talk about that at the end as well. But thank you guys all for being here. And again, please feel free to use that chat function liberally as I’ve got my partner, Casey Conlon, on the ready for questions. So, thank you guys very much.

Cole Harmonson  6:53  So, let’s talk about before COVID let’s talk about some of the biggest challenges in manufacturing. Let’s start with you, Stephen, tell us, you know, what you think is going on? And what was going on sort of before all of this disruption happened?

Stephen Shang  7:16  Yeah, for us, you know, before all this disruption happened, I think our biggest challenge was really, like Robert was saying, more of a Sales and Marketing Challenge. We had a certain physical plant that we had built up. And the question was, how do we utilize that to the highest level of efficiency, and really grow into this niche that we’re filling with container-based structures? And so, a lot of head scratching was really focused on sales and marketing, and how to how to dominate those markets. Gotcha.

Cole Harmonson  7:47  Robert, same question.

Robert Conley  7:50  So, one of the tenants that we work with and by the way, I forgot to say thank you for having me and welcome to everybody. I haven’t done a lot of these. So, I get a little bit lost sometimes. So, in manufacturing long supply chains are ugly supply chains. And I think there’s been a pretty consistent misunderstanding that low price is the siren song that you’re after and what we believed in. And typically we wouldn’t choose an overseas supplier if we could avoid it, even if you pay a little bit more. And, and so, I think that pre-COVID the universe was working on what I consider to be a flawed principle of long supply chains and low price, or what you should be pursuing. And what you really should be pursuing, at least from my perspective, is the close supplier that can satisfy you in short lead times with relative values of inventory and competitive price. And by doing that you effectively flush the system of working capital a bit. And reduce inventories. You do a lot of really cool things for your business. And so, I think, you know, if you look at manufacturing today, that probably is one of the opportunities that pre-COVID wasn’t really being viewed or looked at. And post-COVID or during COVID is in. I mean a high level of scrutiny right now because of the disruption and the inability to actually deliver products that you’re relying on those long supply chains to bring to you.

Cole Harmonson  9:48  So, for those of us who are not familiar with some of this industry jargon regarding long supply chains, could you just flesh that out just a little bit for us?

Robert Conley  10:00  Sure, I can probably give you an example. In the last company that I was running, we bought a finished product from India in China. And as we strategized, in this 50-year-old family run business that we were doing a turnaround in, what the premise was, is how do we buy our fabric product, because we have manufacturing in Mexico, closer to the heartbeat? You can buy it pretty cheaply in India. But if you looked at the unit economics, Jim always said raw material costs are not that materially different between, even if it’s high volume, between manufacturers. And so what we did was is we went to try to work with a fabric supplier in Mexico versus buying that same fabric from a supplier we’re getting finished product from an India. What we found is that the costs, our price for that product, weren’t materially different. And if you look at the long supply chain, so, if you go FOB or XWorks India, you then start — So you got to pay for something XWorks India on their dock. Now, you start a 34 to 45-day process of moving that material to you. Well, now my cash is being used in that process. And so, it really, fundamentally if I compress that down to effectively my backyard, I reduced the risk what if my container falls off the ship as an example. Now, it doesn’t happen very often. No, but does it happen? Yes. What if they’re late? Well, all of these things add risk to you being able to supply your customer with their finished product, if it’s A value add component that you’re buying, or the finished product if you’re buying it, so that risk is not preferable if you can avoid it at relative costs of supply. We might say that clearly enough.

Cole Harmonson  12:18  I think so. Stephen, I don’t know if you have anything to add to that, or if you share that same philosophy, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the differences.

Stephen Shang  12:29  No, I think I think Roberts encapsulated pretty well. But yeah, long supply chains are ugly supply chains. I would totally agree with that.

Cole Harmonson  12:37  Got it. And do we think that that sort of post-COVID look at reality is just because of all I know, the sort of the nationalistic sentiment, I think is going on across the world now. Do we think that that is going to substantially change? Or how do you guys think about problem now?

Stephen Shang  13:02  I mean, so our raw materials are shipping containers, right? So, it’s not the stuff inside the shipping containers, but we need a consistent flow of shipping containers coming in, from Asia, from Africa, from wherever. And I’ll say, you know, if all you believed was kind of the news and the nationalistic kind of news at the reporting on and all that you would think that shipping has ground to a halt. But based on our data, it slowed a little bit when the COVID first hit, but now it’s back to kind of the levels that were used to be at prices. Albeit they are a little bit higher, but I wouldn’t say they’re so much higher that we can’t absorb those costs or pass those costs on to the customer.

Cole Harmonson  13:42  Yeah, I would echo that sentiment. I have a client in the Port of Los Angeles who does nothing but shipping containers, and there was a dip in volume, but it’s back now. Although I feel like there’s more diversification and I’d like to just get your thoughts on how someone could diversify and in their supply chain if you know they were relying on China, will that still be the case? You know, going forward, you know, what will the relationship with China kind of morph into if any changes?

Robert Conley  14:27  So, I got a LinkedIn question from a woman who’s making garments the other day, and she was wanting to move her manufacturing back to the US. And what I would say is, is still consistent with what I said earlier, which is, um, textiles left the US and probably rightfully so those organizational structures, unions, different things cause prices to increase on labor basis. But if you look at our neighbor, Mexico, the unit economics and I believe strongly in unit economics, the unit economics of Mexico are not dissimilar from China. The capabilities of Mexico are very strong and the ability to move supply chains from a long distance to a near distance with preferable tariff structures, etc. is very valuable. Now, is there a risk? And is there a concern with being able to assess those supply chains? And I would say yes. All suppliers are not created equal and promise a lot deliver very little sometimes, but I think that China could be displaced in certain realms. Not all because they’re very good at many things and very fast and governmentally sponsored to invest in infrastructure. because capitalism structures are not. So, it depends. But yes, it’s very possible. what we would call high tolerance industries. There was something where you’re using a micrometer or where, you know, fractions of a hair distance between panels or parts matter. Those could return to the US in a nanosecond, the oil industry has had some experience with those things. It’s really a matter of being able to support that. I think that will some people find it hard to figure out. I don’t know if I answered that correctly or not. Clearly,

Cole Harmonson  16:40  There are no wrong answers here at the Dare Capital Dialog, so thank you.

Stephen Shang 16:49 Well, I would add that to that, too. I mean, yes, there definitely is risk of trade war, kind of sitting out there. And as a Chinese American who grew up in Oklahoma, my perspectives probably don’t represent the majority. But I’m reminded of as you know, my daughter about two, three years ago was starting to learn how to read. And she just was looking at me and said, Dad, why does it say everything is made in China? Right? And I mean, it’s legitimate if you think about it. And so, if we’re really going to kind of take all these different supply chains where we have so much product flowing into our country, so much capital flow in there, and then some product is going back as well. I mean, it would be extremely difficult to pull the two countries apart, to really disrupt kind of international shipping at that level.

Cole Harmonson  17:36  Yeah. And not to, you know, have a moral component about this. That’s not the that’s not the conversation. But is there the move to American manufacturing, is your take on that, that it’s more hype than anything else or is will it, will we onshore, will that actually happen? Or can it even happen? And if so, then what’s kind of the time frame?

Stephen Shang  18:11  So, I can speak about containers itself. Like to manufacturer containers in the US with US labor in US steel, you know, is probably two to two and a half x what it costs to do in China. So, the question then is, you know, Does that even make sense? And can we catch up to that kind of productivity and cost gap? I think it’d be extremely difficult. I think the offshoring of manufacturing that we’re seeing, like Robert saying is really for some pretty technical high value-add type products in China, and then India, for that matter will continue to produce some of the more commoditized type items, data.

Cole Harmonson  18:54  Any follow on there, Robert?

Robert Conley  18:59  So, my belief is that humans are a bell-shaped curve. And we revert to the mean over and over, meaning that we try to learn from history or current experience, and then we return to the crimes we’re comfortable with. The reason that Jim Ashton liked job shop manufacturing is because he liked solving complex problems. And I would submit that growing a manufacturing base in the US is a challenge. Very doable, but that for the most part, the human component will cause themselves to want to do something and then actually return to what’s comfortable and familiar versus taking the longer road which is changing their paradigm. I think it’ll happen in certain instances, opportunistically, but broadly speaking, I hope, I hope for Mexico, because I like Mexico and I like that environment. You can do a lot there that they benefit. If they’re smart, they will work on that. But, broadly speaking, I think Stephens corrected. You know, it’s not likely to be disrupted upon the whole.

Casey Conlon  20:33  Yeah. Stephen, there’s a question here from the audience. You mentioned there’s two and a half times the cost for those containers, what’s driving that cost increase?

Stephen Shang  20:46  I think part of it is just we don’t have steel foundries in the US to really spit out the kind of steel that you need to build containers with. And then the other component of that is just the labor rates there are just insanely low and — it’s a pretty, it’s not a complex weld that you have to put on it. And so, they’re able to achieve big cost savings. So, both material and labor.

Robert Conley  21:11  I also think from a Chinese perspective, one of the things that people don’t weigh in enough in relation to that is the government sponsorship of the companies that are producing the products, whether it be steel, labor, robots. Because I would, I would argue that a lot of those containers are probably made with robotic welds. And so, you know, the ability to set up a robotic line, what robotic tooling line that’s 100 yards long, with a government paying for a good portion of it, well that company doesn’t have the same unit economics or economics that that a US company or any other company would have. And so, you’ve got a strong imbalance in understanding why that’s true and an unnatural scenario with Chinese governmental support, skewing what would otherwise be very challenging, like capitalistic basis or free markets basis. From a supply chain standpoint, if that makes that makes sense.

Stephen Shang 22:18   Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

Casey Conlon  22:22  And I think, kind of following up a little bit different tack you mentioned, obviously the Chinese government subsidies help lower their costs. We have another audience member asking, you know, the NAFTA agreements been in the news or the rewrite lately. Have you seen any effect on that because of COVID talking specifically us to Canada or us to Mexico, the effects there?

Stephen Shang  22:48  I don’t do that much business with Mexico or Canada. So, Robert, have you had an answer that I don’t have a strong opinion?

Robert Conley  22:56  Yeah, we bought, we had about 700 employees in Mexico. I’m very aware of the NAFTA agreement in, in really the NAFTA, the new NAFTA is a very positive thing for all parties, let’s just say. You know, it still has the good effects in it. There were some aspects that, you know, the government was trying to kind of unweight it, if you will, to have Mexico kind of support some of its own costs in certain ways. But you know, we bought a company a Mexican company in 2019 as a vertical integration play and phenomenal, great investment, great conditions. Plenty to work with, I strongly recommend and am in support of strengthening the North American continent between all three parties.

Casey Conlon  24:04  How do you feel, you know, talking about the China trade deal as a follow on? Do you feel like it that will get done? Or how do you plan to that?

Stephen Shang  24:16  Again, I have a strong background in that either.

Robert Conley  24:25  No, it’s okay. I mean, this stuff is, so, I love it. I spend a lot of time in lots of different aspects of it, but I think you need to get a helicopter out on the Chinese deal and take a longer-term perspective of what’s occurring globally. When you talk about oil reserves, arguing about islands. I think there’s some aspects of the Chinese agreement that are more about leverage over the long term, not about the target scenarios and the Chinese have a very long-term perspective of what they’re accomplishing. And the US is not as good at that and needs to be better at it. But you’re talking about a global superpower. Changing the economic landscape, globally speaking. And in GDP right now is redistributing itself on a global basis. And they’re trying to siphon off as much of that GDP as is possible. You know, as it is it kind of changes the places that it goes. You got to watch out for China. I mean, bottom line, you got to watch out for China.

Casey Conlon  25:54  Awesome. Thanks. That’s, your answers are definitely been helpful, Robert. Appreciate it. We’ve got some more audience questions that we’re gonna go with. So, kind of jumping in here. You had mentioned, Robert, earlier the government sponsorship within China, do you see any role of for us defense, either the Department of Defense or any other organization in terms of US government sponsorship?

Robert Conley  26:22  I’m not I’m not sure I understand that question well enough to answer it’s more.

Casey Conlon  26:31  I’ll see if a Jason is listening. Maybe he can chime in. So, I’ll read it just straightforward. It says speaking of government sponsorship, do you see any role for US defense in this?

Stephen Shang  26:43  I’m able to take a stab at that. You know, we have traditionally done a lot of work with Department of Defense. And what we have seen is that some of these very large private contractors, defense contractors, they become part of this kind of industrial military complex where they’re just intertwined with the government. And you see people kind of leaving the government and going to work for these companies immediately. Right. And so, it did. We may not call it sponsorship here in the US in the same way that you know, China, when you start a business, the government really is a second or third partner in that business. But I do think there is quite a bit of support for these, especially these defense contractors that are part of that complex.

Cole Harmonson  27:32  That’s a good thing. So, let’s talk about and by the way, I know we were I think we had this plan for 30 minutes and I knew it would go longer. I just want to let everybody know if you do have to jump off you will be able to find this on YouTube on the dare capital channel on YouTube or you can find it in my Twitter feed at @coledoescapital and then we can also send out a little link to everyone, just in case you have to jump off, but our audience seems to be growing, not shrinking over time. So, so this is a really great discussion, we want to keep going. Thinking about, sort of with COVID situation, where we are today. What do you guys think the biggest challenges are for operators to think about? And then what are the steps that these operators can take in order to mitigate some of these challenges? So, problem and solution with COVID? So, maybe, Stephen, you want to kick us off on that one?

Stephen Shang  28:46  Sure. I would say, you know, as we’ve thought about it as a leadership team at Falcon, I think the number one challenge that we see out there is worker health. Right. And so obviously on the manufacturing floor as we’re still running, you know, how do you keep everyone healthy? How do you keep everyone productive? How do you maintain the levels of efficiency or increase from there when you have to socially distance? Those are kind of the more obvious answers. But there’s also the aspect of worker health for the office staff or the overhead in a manufacturing organization, because a lot of those folks start working from home to protect the worker safety on the manufacturing floor, and they become untethered. And so you really wonder about the mental health of those employees, how do you keep them engaged and all that and I think the opportunity there that we really seized upon is to really up our game as far as transparency goes. And I think in the last 90-120 days since all this has been happening, I think with that heightened transparency you know, really sitting down laying out what is the 90 day plan all the things that you and I learned in EO, Cole, you know it would really applying in spades now, and really being intentional about it, versus pre COVID you kind of took all that stuff for granted to some extent. Like oh, yeah, business is great business is great, you know, but now really focusing on worker health, as it has become the opportunity. And I think the companies who do that well, who can demonstrate leadership and then demonstrate transparency because really, nobody has the answers. And as a leader, you’d be faking it if you said you did. I think that’s really going to separate a lot of winners and losers in this environment.


Cole Harmonson  30:32  I feel like I’m always faking it, but Okay, I know I love that. I love I love Your love that on the mental health side, I’m curious on that. You know, that’s a, that’s a very personal area for people even to admit. So I applaud you for jumping in on that and just even acknowledging folks. Because I mean, what I’ve seen and again, we talked to thousands of lots of employees if you just count all the folks that we talk to, and, you know, anxiety, fear, people’s, you know, job security, you know, I mean, there’s a lot of processing, if you will, that’s happening with folks these days. And, you know, sort of the tools for doing so, are, are very limited, I would say, at a corporate level, or even folks even wanting to have that conversation just generally. So, you know, the, the caring and the empathy piece, you know, just to just even work, quote, unquote, hold space for that is, is, I think about 90% of it, but I’m just curious, how do you how do you even get into that with your team?

Stephen Shang  31:52  So, I would say there are two ways. One is pretty simple, and I think everyone could pull something like this off but the second one I’ve had to be more intentional about. The first one, you know, in the Rockefeller habits, Vern Harnish talks about doing your, you know, five-minute huddle every day. And typically, we would do that with the office staff, which is about 25 folks. We’d all get in the conference room, we would do that well, when COVID hit. You know, that was the last thing we really let go of, because that was just a daily rhythm, a daily habit that everyone kind of synced up felt connected because of that. And so now that we were all virtual, we kind of go on teams, and we still do the same huddle. And you know, I spent 15 minutes before the huddle, just prepping my mind, to be upbeat, to be optimistic, to tell my funny dad jokes that aren’t really that funny, right, just to get that so that when we do hit that we kick off the day correctly and really come together. Once again albeit through a different medium. The second one’s been harder for me, but I mean, I’m sure you can relate. You kind of get into your daily routines and you have like a to-do list of you know 20 tasks, you get all these emails coming at you now people are pinging your Microsoft Teams, and just never seems enough time to do all the things you need to do. Well, two days a week, I come to the factory. And I actually make space in my schedule, that’s just whitespace, not to hit all those to-do list items. But to just walk around, go talk to the factory workers, spend time with them, ask them how they are, asking how their family is, and not being in a rush about it to genuinely care for those that you’re responsible for. And we found that that, that’s I think, really helped us kind of hold together mental health piece because they can tell me about their fears. They can tell me about what they’re excited about, you know, and that’s been something that that I’ve had to be disciplined about doing and not letting my day get away from me.


Cole Harmonson  33:46  Wow, that’s strong leadership. Very strong. I applaud that very much. I think people need that and I think people are looking for that sort of stability, if you will. Robert, how about you what do you think are some of the biggest challenges and you know how to how to mitigate those are operators going forward?


Robert Conley  34:09  I agree with you, my heroes strongly tenants and connecting to people. And you know, one of the things in the frameworks that I use is really they’re fundamentally about people. And, and so you know, people deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and a non-punitive environment. When you realize there’s 168 hours a week, and as a single individual, there’s really not a lot you can do in those 168 hours that’s going to truly drive your business forward. He realized quickly, you need others and, and so, you know, I think one of the things I’m proudest of most in most companies that I have ever taken over or, you know, been involved in is, is a cultural change. Related to what Stephen is getting at. And that’s putting people in front of whatever the decisions are, whether it’s guiding the team, enabling them to understand what pieces they hold in the business and why it’s important and how that work goes into each other. And you know, that transparency, we use a tool called Ops Review every month, where, it’s basically we’re, you know, CEO, CEO, CFO, etc, come together, every department presents kind of where they are, what they’re working with challenges, they’re having successes. And what happens is the organization begins to teach each other and when an organization sees each other, that empathy begins to grow within the organization, not just for the work and the customer, but for each other and how they fit into each other. And in the leader, we have another saying, Fish stink from the head down. And so, in Stephens case, you know, the fish is doing, you know great things and helping people feel connected to the business. And that’s a missing piece in a lot of cases, at least from our experience of taking under-managed companies. So, I completely agree transparency, consistency, being patient, being tolerant, understanding, caring about others, those parts of business are not well formed enough, nor are they pushed enough in the business environment. Because leaders get locked into their egos or they’ll get locked into the mission or they get scared like over forecasts, or whatever it is, you know, and I’ll touch on this which is, if you if you don’t see me see you pay attention, what companies are reporting and the things that are happening in the universe related to COVID, forecasting is so difficult right now. The Black Swan effect, no one’s been through this, there isn’t a way to get concrete about most of these things because it’s, it’s like pushing down on a sponge, you know, it’s gonna pop out different areas. And so, it may not be the right visual, but this is really challenging right now. And being patient with the team or the organization to know that this too shall pass. But people are doing the best they can right now. I mean, in a lot of cases, I think that’s all you can do. So, you know, forecasting is very challenging right now, for all companies do it, from every single thing that I hear, have conversations about and understand. I don’t care what size you are.

Cole Harmonson  37:56  Yeah, I’d love to, if you don’t mind typing that link into the chat for the panelists, and we’ll get that published out that tool you mentioned sounds like something that everybody could benefit from. In terms of we got an audience question here, around challenges. A quick overview of the cost of goods increases due to logistic issues. And what is the plan to keep that low?

Stephen Shang  38:30  We’ve not seen dramatic price increases on our raw materials. We have seen it kind of shipping the final product would be a truck that seems to have gone up slightly. But I think that’s being offset somewhat by the price of fuel going down as well. So, it’s not something that we’ve identified as a as a big threat. If it does increase, we will definitely just increase our prices and see if the market will bear that.

Cole Harmonson  38:54  Yeah, spot rates I think have gone up just because there’s been a lot of trucking companies and logistics businesses in the US that have gone out of business because of, you know, too much supply. So also, this is specifically for you, Stephen, regarding I know you mentioned earlier sort of pre COVID that your challenge was on the sales and marketing side. Is it more of a challenge now and how have you worked with that?

Stephen Shang  39:32  Um, is it more of a challenge? I would say it’s, it’s a different kind of challenge. I wouldn’t say it’s more or less of a challenge. It’s a different kind of challenge. You know, before it was really we a big part of our business which exposed to oil and gas and with kind of COVID hitting and then the price of crude oil going negative and everything like that a lot of the oil and gas market is just a bloodbath. But you know There are two challenges we presented to our team in the first 90 days. One is like, okay, we’ve been hit by COVID we’ve got a product that can be applied to a lot of different industries, can we pivot to some industry that that may be using container-based structures? And if so, how do we go after them? How do we develop the products and all that? And then the second thing is, is you know, one of our other themes was sharpen the saw and that one was much easier to implement in the sense that Okay, we’re pretty good at what we do. But you know, what, if you’re sitting around at home and you have to do sales, marketing, sometimes it’s just it’s really hard to get inspired to, to make those calls or to really write that content. How can we sharpen the saw and so we really revved up the sales training in the first 90 days pretty dramatically and really focused in on that now the first part of UK so what else can we go after? You know, I just my team was just blew me away because one day said okay, let’s develop a COVID line of products, which are COVID testing labs, you know, mobile hospital rooms, Things like that, that you can put inside a container. And in a matter of, you know, a few days, they came up with the draft of it. And then a few weeks, they had fully published all the marketing collateral. I’m like, why can’t we do this and pre COVID? Wow, they came out with an amazing line. And we were able to get that out to the industry. And we’ve seen some really good hits on that. But then the other one was the sales team, they really focused on listening to the customer more. And so, you know, who’s doing well, in the COVID crisis? Well, grocery stores are doing well. Well, can’t we do like you help them with curbside pickup? Because that’s what they are needing. And so, we’ve been building a lot of curbside pickup units to give grocery stores additional space for that. And so, it’s that you know, it there’s that saying that if you focus on problems, you’re going to just come up with more problems. You need to figure out why you can’t succeed. But if you focus on opportunities, well then when luck hits, you’re going to be ready to take that right. And so, I think our team has done just a fantastic job on keeping their head up and focusing on what opportunities are really out there.

Cole Harmonson 42:01  Love that. I love that. So, to kind of sum up regarding challenges, and mitigation around those, and I’m curious if you guys have anything else to add, that really it sounds more like personnel issues. I won’t call it HR, but I’ll call it culture and being able to listen, being able to care, show empathy, and being able to, you know, actually do something about that and deliver to your team, which is always a challenge. But I guess what I’m hearing you say, both of you say is that most of the issues are centering around, you know, caring for the people on your team. Is that a good summation? And anything else to add, before we kind of move on to what, what are the opportunities?

Stephen Shang  42:57  Yeah, I mean, if you really kick it up to a whole other level, On the caring for the people on your team, when COVID first hit, you know, I think a lot of us were confronted with a choice, because we didn’t know how bad is gonna get or how long it was going to take. Maybe we should just hunker down and shut down or lay off a bunch of people and all that, right. I mean, those were decisions that we as president CEOs were faced with. And, and, you know, I really did a lot of soul searching and that like, you know, I love my people, and what’s the best way to care for them? We’re going to stay open, right? We’re gonna, we’re just gonna go for broke if it’s gonna last for a long time or whatever, you know, but we’re going to do that’s going to be the most important thing we focused on. And fortunately, it worked out for us. But there could have been a scenario where it would have just been, we all crashed and burned.

Cole Harmonson  43:43  Yeah.

Robert Conley  43:48  I, I will say that. And again, I applaud Stephen, like, what a great guy and a great guy to work for and those are the case. So that’s it. That’s a beautiful thing to hear. I would say, because I’m a bit different in that, you know, I’ve entered companies that are broken most of the time. And most of the time, what we say is that we’re freeing employees from their captors. And, and COVID from my perspective, is an emergency response to something that should be consistent throughout. You know, in in so, I don’t give a, but sometimes I say things very candidly, I apologize, that’s harsh, but I don’t give leaders a lot of credit for responding to something they should be doing all the time. And, you know, in the emergency because, you know, every single thing organizational chart ultimately is about operating leverage, and the better that the individuals feel, feel connected to and otherwise Understand the box that to you no matter what chart and the better the leader works with them, it connects to them, the more that that structure because that’s what it’s called organizational structure is able to produce more, and ultimately is literally about the human inside the box. And so, you know, I brought doughnuts and coffees and tacos, you know, on Fridays myself, stopping by the store. You know, these connections to humans is what people get pissed off about every single day in business every single day — they’re underpaid or undervalued, they’re not communicated with. And so when a leader steps into that particular position, and is patient and understanding and guides humans to the targets that businesses are trying to achieve, amazing things happen both in their personal lives and in the company’s life. And so, whether it’s COVID or it isn’t COVID I think leaders have to look at themselves very distinctly, and do more of what Stephen’s doing, and get out of themselves and into their people, you know. My karate instructor said, Don’t, you know, put your ego in your back pocket and let’s go to work. And you got to care for your people. So COVID can be an excuse for those things but the bottom line is these things should be happening and should have been happening for a long period of time and need to continue to happen regardless of emergency what’s in front of us.

Cole Harmonson  46:33  Agree 100% and I’m just having to throw this out there as we’ve been doing these dare capital dialogues and discussions with leaders across various industries slash things, we’re interested in. One of those things is culture. Communicating with your team, I would say I’m a throw out three sorts of tools here. I think that are helpers in accomplishing the things you guys have been mentioning. One is Workify, that’s an Austin based company here that it’s a sort of listening tool to measure culture to actually help you put some teeth behind some of the things that you put you know forth in your culture, that’s Workify. And then we had Rob Lynch on and talking about the Rockefeller habits. So a lot of folks have heard about that and there’s a book and then the tool set that we use is called, KH O R U S .com, and that tool is meant to help you keep some of those rocks that you establish in your Rockefeller habits present and communicated transparently across the team. And that’s as well. So as far as tools, at least for me as leader, you know, I need some something concrete you know, so I can look to it and say, okay, we either are doing this or not, we’re either listening or not the thing I liked about Workify so much is that it has an anonymous feedback function so people feel free to it’s like, Cole, hey, you’re full of shit. You said this, you did this, like, you know, how did this all work out? So just helps you kind of put some, some teeth behind it. I don’t think we have any more open questions I want to kind of move on to the opportunities that you guys see on the horizon that are coming up because of COVID specifically, what on your mind as far as opportunities that are going to be occurring for folks and how to take advantage of those. Robert you want to start?

Robert Conley  48:47  I’m gonna go back to forecasting and you know if you, if you buy and sell companies one of the things that private equity hates are, you know, the one percent of the market share or etc. And one of these things can cause us to go do is to, and I think Stephen said a minute ago, which is, we went back and try to listen to our customers and hear them better. And what that really is related to is doing it from the ground up. And you know, when you build a structure from the ground up, whether it’s the weld strength materials you use, or the humans that do that work to connect to the customers, the markets. I think that’s probably one of the biggest opportunities to realize, Oh, crap, we win this or lose this one customer at a time. What is it that they want and need and how do we forecast those needs built in? I think on my LinkedIn profile, I have a piece that Dr. Ashton wrote for Harvard related to understanding how deep you can go in your core business. Value is destroyed by moving outside of their core. But if you build your business up and you really focus on the customer, I think these are the opportunities and times where you realize, oh crap, we didn’t understand that doing well. And there’s a better way to understand it and getting granular and knowing why people buy from you what’s important to them, what they care about, is a way to strengthen your business during a time of what we’ll just call pandemonium, if that makes any sense.

Cole Harmonson  50:37  Got it. Understood. Stephen, same question.

Stephen Shang  50:41  So, we see plenty of opportunities in container-based structures, but I don’t think that’s interesting for the group as a whole. I think if we’re speaking about manufacturing, like what opportunities are there in manufacturing, I see two global themes that we are positioning ourselves to capitalize on the first one Is counterparty risk. And I think with COVID with, you know, companies going out of business and things like that, I think people who are looking for suppliers looking for manufacturers, their purchasers, their CFO, all that they have a heightened awareness of counterparty risk, which may not have existed in 2019 or 2018. And so being able to position a manufacturer as Hey, look, we’re the guys you want to go to, because we’ve been around and we’re going to be around, we’re going to take care of you, you’re not gonna have a disruption to supply chain, I think that’s a huge opportunity. And if companies that are healthy right now aren’t trying to figure out a way to talk about how they’re healthy and how they can help, you know, supply the materials that that their customers are wanting, that should be something that is, you know, mission number one. The second one would be, you know, the talent that is on the market right now. For example, one of the things that we just turn on the spigot on hiring as Director of Sales and I think During the kind of pre COVID days, man trying to get people to even apply for that was close to impossible. And our HR managers told me we’ve had like 30 applicants in the first two days, right? And half of those people are unemployed, unfortunately, and half of them actually are in current positions, but looking for a change, because maybe they see the writing on the wall. So, I think there’s a huge opportunity to bring on some talent in kind of this time, and the question is, when do you do that? From my own, you know, capital conservation standpoint.

Cole Harmonson  52:33  Got it. On the capital preservation, I mean, the, the counterparty risk. Could you talk a little bit more about that? I don’t know if I fully understand what you’re, what you’re saying there in terms of how to how to take advantage of that. How would one think about moving themselves there?

Stephen Shang  52:58  Yeah, so it really is I mean, the way that we’ve implemented at Falcon is twofold. One is what we’ve done is, you know, in the last four years, we’ve really invested in being a thought leader, its kind of a cliché term, in our industry. There are a lot of people thinking in the container-based industry. So it wasn’t that hard to become a thought leader. But to position ourselves as the authority on a lot of the trends that are happening in the industry, the other part of it is to really demonstrate Hey, look, you know, this is our track record. This is how we’ve responded in times of crisis. This is how we responded in COVID. And you know, what, we’re going to come out of this stronger and that’s more of a messaging, to potential customers so that when they’re looking at us versus, you know, Brand X, they’re gonna say, Man, you know, yeah, Falcons more expensive, but Brand X, I just don’t have the confidence that they’re going to be around to deliver on this entire project.


Cole Harmonson  53:51  We’ve seen some opportunities come about because folks across the globe are now requiring cash up front up front. And so, they can position themselves as almost distributors here in the US because other folks can’t afford to put down the cash. And that’s, again, what Mobilization Funding, you know, they help sort of pre-invoice funding, once it becomes an invoice then, you know, folks like us and asset based lenders and factors can then, you know, provide the working capital necessary. But I’m curious if you had seen any changes on the working capital side, in terms of what folks are requiring, you know, as, as you’re looking at your vendor list.

Stephen Shang  54:41  I think people are much more understanding when we do charge people for, you know, bigger deposits upfront, but I do think there’s a unique opportunity for folks like Dare to gain market share over like banks, because I think a lot of banks from a working capital funding standpoint because they have to reserve that cash and they’re less certain that they, that’s leaving kind of a market gap for that type of an instrument.

Cole Harmonson  55:04  Yeah, we’ve certainly seen more of that. And, you know, banks, I think are going to be in risk off mode.

Robert Conley  55:13   It’s interesting, is what you guys are really talking about is balance sheet strength. And, and balance sheets are not well understood by many, many people in business. And, you know, ratios and the ability to explain the value of those ratios, to Stephens point, about counterparty risk, what you’re really asking is, can you sustain me? Are you going to fail? And, and the ability to, to illustrate a balance sheet strength position is a is a pretty powerful message to send when you’re taking cash from, from customers. And it can, I think you have to agree with Stephen completely, which is, it actually can — if you can illustrate the strength of your balance sheet and why they’re cash is safe with you — really differentiate and give you probably that pricing power that you know, you can pay for certainty, you know, kind of thing from a messaging standpoint. And so, I think that’s a, I applaud you for having that perspective on counterparty risk. It’s a nuanced awareness of the market and I, as you said, banks are risk off how banks are always risk off, but if you understand the balance sheet and the nature of receivables, payables and you know, aging and different things of that nature and inventory hole I mean, question mighty you know, if you go strong balance sheet, you have the potential to win big in this particular environment. If that makes sense or not, but I like me some balance sheets.

Cole Harmonson  56:55  We’ve got a couple more questions here. We’re gonna throw those in and then We’re going to move to the last part, which is predictions in closing thoughts just right after we answer these guys. Yes, questions.

Casey Conlon 57:09   So, one question here. I know the four of us are all in Texas, but the question was where kind of what are your best, better and then you know, bad states to locate a company, specifically in manufacturing in the US. Where would you say, okay here are the best here’s okay, and then don’t locate here. A lot of laughter I know we’re all in Texas.

Stephen Shang  57:42  That might be too political of a statement, I’ll just say there’s a reason that Gigafactory is looking at, you know, camping out to two exits from us here in Falcon.

Casey Conlon  57:52  Got it. Robert, I think your laughter says your position pretty well here. So, no worries, that thing

Robert Conley  58:02  3800 companies left California. 1900 of them I believe, you can check the statistics and please don’t you know, give me if I’m if I’m really out of line here, but believe about a very large portion of those companies ended up in Dallas. Texas is, and I think what you’re really talking about at the end of the day is, regulations and business are like oil and water. And so when you find states, forget about political bendings, leanings, that welcome with low barrier, whether it be tax or otherwise, OSHA, you know, socialistic perspectives, etc. on business, you can you can count on those environments being challenging and remaining challenging. Bottom line. Done. I can tell you I may be unpopular for that. But low regulations are your friend as it relates to business. And I’m not talking about disrupting the environment.

Cole Harmonson  59:19  Casey actually changed the question, you know, to be a little bit more politically correct, because it was, why is Texas so much better than every other stae? Thank you for doing that. The very adeptly there, Casey, I think we got one other.

Casey Conlon  59:35  Yeah, we’ve got one last question very specific. It says, I have to import or export lithium batteries in Japan, their material safety data sheets, the form is still the same, but do you think because of COVID they can be quarantined? I did I read this word for word. So

Stephen Shang  59:57  I’m sorry. I have no expertise in neither of those things.

Robert Conley  1:00:01  MSDS sheets mean, I’m not so. But I think that anything you’re coming from locations where infection rates are high can be quarantine. I know that from an international Import Export standpoint, just having played in those arenas, all materials that have caustics in them, as batteries do, you know will have Import/Export requirements based on every government that you’re dealing with. And so I’m not sure I understand the question, but I mean it in these times, you can expect for governments to make knee-jerk reactions related to anything that they deem as being risk related.

Cole Harmonson  1:00:56  We are we’re going to go we’re going to go over lightning round here to you guys, which sounds fun on predictions, and we’ve got a number of topics supply chain diversification, Internet of Things. 3d printing, how to collaborate work, work force diversity. So lightning round supply chain diversification, Stephen go.

Stephen Shang  1:01:27  It’s good to keep your supply chain happy and yes, we are looking for alternate sources we have any suppliers on here watch out, but yeah, it’s a good thing.

Robert Conley  1:01:40  A fundamentally believe in small numbers of suppliers with high concentrations of those suppliers that can prove they can deliver within the criteria we have very specific criteria that we help them understand. Many companies will try to spread their purchases out and attempt to get better pricing, we find that that doesn’t work, as well as concentrating purchases with competent, capable proven companies.

Cole Harmonson  1:02:13  Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. On to Internet of Things. How is IoT gonna change supply chain management? and How else will technology change in manufacturing operations from this? Stephen, your first lightning round.

Stephen Shang  1:02:30  No strong opinions on that either way. Don’t know.

Cole Harmonson  1:02:37  That’s a very fast answer.

Robert Conley  1:02:40  I can give you an example of a potential IoT effect in the last company that we were running. We were talking about putting RFID tags on the units that we were producing. If you think about the, as an example, I’ve got a stack of material and I’m doing vendor managed inventory. where I want to be just in time, once that stack shrinks to a certain point, being able to read when a bag or something leaves a stack and begins to travel. If you understand the count in that particular IoT environment and you have something that can track it, then you can be more just in time in that vendor managed inventory environment. Now, technologically speaking, it’s, it’s somewhat complicated to set those environments up and can be cost intensive. But trackability and IoT, ultimately, the window industry saved a ton of money and IoT by understanding how parts degrade and maintenance etc. There’s a lot there, but infrastructure is typically the problem in getting IoT to the point of concept from concept to practical applications. So beautiful pie in the sky. Think about it in the 2000s as being able to deliver the software that you can that you can sell, and actually a company have the ability to make use of that software that they purchase, hopefully getting all this value from it, you got to mature into it. So IoT has got a future when it really gets recognized as industry specific, I think

Cole Harmonson  1:04:28  3d printing will lower the barrier of entry for new, less capital-intensive manufacturing companies?

Stephen Shang  1:04:41  We are not currently using 3d printing. It’s really hard to 3d print a container. I know Evan Lewis is 3d printing concrete homes, but what more power to him on that but yeah, I don’t think we can 3d printers Pick your dinner.

Robert Conley  1:05:01  Yeah, I had I had a quick discussion with a young man on 3d printing this week or last week, maybe it’s 3d printing is just machining in a different form. And speed is critical specs are always critical that you know, 3d printing has got to come a long way and it certainly is perfectly valid in all industries is valid. The question is, what’s the infrastructure cost setup to get 3d printers to produce it the rate that a company needs, retail you’re talking about is displacing labor. If you do a unit economics on it, you know, it’ll be viable and high tolerance environments, maybe more so than others, but it’s a combination of machining and robotics. You know, from that perspective, and certainly viable, but, you know, maturity is required, and changes required in organizations to actually be able to benefit from it. And, you know, there’s advancements happening but fast all the time.

Cole Harmonson  1:06:04  Collaborations as far as the industry partnerships with universities and others, is this going to spark new innovations new ways of working together? Stephen go.

Stephen Shang  1:06:19  Are they actually having school this fall?

Cole Harmonson  1:06:24  I think they they’re all saying yes, we’re having school and then at the last minute they’re gonna slip over to What?!

Stephen Shang  1:06:32  I do think there are a lot of great ideas that come out of universities. It’s really like working with University of Texas, how, how do they have a technology transfer program and a licensing program that works for industry and works for academia. And so, I think it’s really University specific.

Robert Conley  1:06:49  I spent I spent time on the phone with a guy that’s very engaged in material science, um, a few days ago, a good friend of mine and he actually works with university He says on multiple boards related taking technology outside out of universities and I think the focus on those products and those technologies that are coming out and it was becoming larger, he said to me, there’s been 1000 research papers produced on a hydrophobic coating from universities in the last 48 months. So, you know, universities are a very, very key part. commercialization of those particular products is a challenge in the manufacturing environment typically is going to be the place that those things take place. Manufacturing doesn’t do hockey sticks. I think Stephen would attest to that. And, but universities have lots and lots to offer. It’s the ability to understand how to commercialize those things. That’s the real challenge, but there are definitely people out there that are working with them and working on those things at this time.

Cole Harmonson  1:07:58  Nice Last lightning round question, work, workforce diversity. How does a diverse workforce impact financial performance? No one wants to touch that one.

Stephen Shang 1:08:19   No, I mean, I’m pretty diverse myself. I just was hoping Robert would go first for once.

Cole Harmonson  1:08:23  No.

Robert Conley  1:08:28  So, part of the philosophy, the frameworks and tools that I use that we use, all humans are created intrinsically equal, hundred percent. However, in an organizational structure, you find whether it be through pay scales, or other ways of understanding people and their capabilities. You can’t look at it Diversity is being the thing you’re after. But what an organization and unfortunately, you know, when you’re a capitalistic society, which I would, I would submit that economics drives the universe period disconnect from that if you like, but what an organizational structure should be agnostic to diversity, because what an organization is looking for is the best person for the role that is required to propel it forward. And as an organism, as and that is what an organization is. You want the health and well-being of the organism to be supported by every single box that you put into it, regardless of its diverse nature. Now, that may be very wrong from political standpoint. But stack the deck with the best people you can find Regardless, and things end up happening in a very beautiful way. And again, all humans are intrinsically equal, deserve dignity and respect, and should be treated with the value that they bring, which is immense when you get the right person.

Cole Harmonson 1:10:21  I think you’re running for office. That’s awesome. I think you’re running for some sort of office. That was a great answer. Thank you for that. Stephen prop.

Robert Conley  1:10:31  Man, these are true beliefs.

Stephen Shang  1:10:35  I mean, the only thing I could add to that, and Robert, that was masterful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The only thing I would add to that is, you know, we’ve got about 80 employees at Falcon and the way that it was just organically grown was it created a very diverse workforce. We have Hispanics, we have blacks, we have women. I mean, it’s just we have me, right? So, it’s a very diverse workforce, not by design, but because that was kind of how it grew. I think how does a diverse workforce impact financial performance. I think when you build it like that, almost like a meritocracy would Robert saying, you’re going to have a very good workforce, and you’re going to have a great financial performance. If you build your workforce, purely for the sake of looking good, or satisfying diversity requirements, then it will probably negatively impact financial performance. Not always, but it may do that, right.

Robert Conley  1:11:32  You’re such a bright guy. I mean, I, you know, here’s the thing, I believe what you’re trying to do is get a company to mesh, right, you’re trying to get individuals to mesh. And what happens is, is that people are smart, they come to work to do good things and want to be in a company that’s doing good things. All of these are parts of these principles and components that we use in running a company. And so, when you get a company, what you have is these individuals, and what they’re doing is they’re looking each other and they’re always looking And each other. And so, what they want is to know that you’re trying to put them in connection with the best person on the other side of the work that can be put in. And so, they know when you don’t do that, and guess what happens? they separate. And so, if they separate, do you get that structure to come together? No, you don’t. And so, we can kid ourselves into believing that we’re going to do something for the betterment of the universe. But if economics are the driver the world around, I don’t care what country you’re in, then and look at all of the countries are trying to become capitalistic but can’t separate from socialistic tendencies. Well, the bottom line is, is it’s about value. And the closer that you can that lattice work together to support whatever it is you’re trying to do the mission you’re trying to accomplish growth. You know, whatever it is, you’re the right person in there. Forget about it. Every single person that’s in that structure then begins to move. And guess what happens believe, because you are guiding the organization do something that is the best thing that you can do for each other, increase strength within it.

Cole Harmonson  1:13:14  I love that you guys are bringing the heat today. Really appreciate it. We put this slide up last, the best way to predict the future is to create it. And I know if it was left in the two of your hands, we’d all be in a better place. So, thank you very much. Any closing thoughts you want to throw out there? Again, your time is very much appreciated today. The floor is open to whoever wants to go first.

Stephen Shang  1:13:45  All right, Robert, I’ll take this one. Um, I mean, Roberts exactly right about forecasting. I don’t think anyone out there that can put out a good forecast. We told our board we’re not looking any further than 90 days out because it’s just, you know, ridiculous to try to do so. But when I would say about the future one, one very strong belief I have about the future is that, you know, if you’re constantly looking to the past and reminiscing about when we got to go to restaurants, when we got to go on business trips, when we went to football games and stuff like that, there’s no way you’re going to see what future is coming at you. And so, I think the future, the people who win in the future are those who are looking forward and not calling it a new normal or anything like that. But just looking forward to where the opportunities are coming from. Right. As opposed to just constantly thinking about the past. Being nostalgic and all that. Yeah, forget about that. Eyes wide, open, facing forward, see what’s coming, and then make adjustments as you need to who knows what this world is going to look like, but it’s going to look different. And that’s how you win the future is you’re able to assimilate that data and take action on it.

Robert Conley  1:14:55  Yeah, no, I do. I what you just said from is, you know, fear trepidation, if you if that’s your reality that will be your reality. And look, go back. And there’s some graphics out there that you can look I found on LinkedIn. But if you look at the pandemics and the Epidemics that have happened throughout history, we’re experiencing one, they’ve experienced some robotic plague, etc. You name it. Where are we today? We’re farther. All Things have continued to push forward. And the bottom line is that back to the humans are a bell-shaped curve, we move through this. And in business, you know, you’re talking about a disruption, not a decimation. Now, certain industries and things are gonna be decimated. But that’s a circumstance. It’s not the reality of the universe. as it sits markets are not going to completely disappear. You know, global trade and things aren’t going to disappear. They shrink Which is whatever scares everybody. And then you go, oh my god, the sky is falling. No, you just got smaller, you know, got a little closer to you. But the Universe Today is the same as it was before COVID. Today, you have the potential to get a higher probability of dying than you did before. But the universe is still the same. It’s going to be the same. And so, preparing for the sameness to return is to build on Stephens is I agree with him 100% look forward, deal with reality, dealing with the pain that it creates. And just move through it. You know, this too shall pass.

Cole Harmonson  1:16:48  Nice, nice. Well, we put this last slide up here. And it’s got everyone’s contact information. We’re gonna again, send this out to everyone. They can have a link to it again, it’s also on the YouTube channel for Derek capital. And we encourage you to go look at that or share it with your friends or whatever. If you found this valuable today, go and comment and follow us on the YouTubes and all of the other socials. I would do want to mention, too, that we have an upcoming webinar with the CEO and President, the chairman of Keystone bank. On August 4, he’s also a fellow austinite and fellow iau member as well, Jeff Wilkinson. We’re going to be talking about how community banking is going to play its part in the upcoming recovery out of where we are today. So, we encourage you to join us for that if that kind of stuff is interesting to you. And once again, thank you guys very much, Casey, thank you for participating and joining them. Robert and Steve You guys were excellent, excellent guys to have on and we really, really appreciate your time. We will see you next time. Hey,

Robert Conley  1:18:14  Yeah, absolutely I want to say one thing. So, Stephens got a full-time job right now. I’m just playing with things. But if there’s help that I can provide to someone that’s been on the call or that, you know, I’m 100% open and willing to have some dialogue about any of these things. So truly don’t hesitate to reach out if I can be valuable to you happy to do that.

Cole Harmonson  1:18:35  Yeah, we do some follow up with everyone who participated. So, we’ll make sure we include everyone’s contact information. So

Stephen Shang  1:18:41  I’m calling Robert after this. He’s got some really good ideas.

Cole Harmonson  1:18:49  Alright, thanks, guys. Everyone. Have a great day.

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