Episode 163 | The Legacy You Build Beyond Construction with Victor Bretting

[00:29] Scott:

Welcome everybody to the next episode of The Mobilization Mindset. My name is Scott Peper, CEO and founder of Mobilization Funding, and today we are going to be talking to a construction executive with 50 years experience, an avid hunter, an amazing human being, one who’s built an amazing ranch. We’re gonna learn all about that. And so if you’re into hunting and construction, this is gonna be a great episode for you. And we’re gonna share some life stories on how construction and hunting and the ranch can all shape you for the better. Victor Breding, welcome to the show.

[01:06] Drew:

Well, thank you. I appreciate this. Great to be here with you, sir.

[01:09] Scott:

You’re welcome, man. And you know, you wrote a book, I love it, The, The Man I Would Become, a memoir that started out as going to your grandchildren, and I wanna touch on that too. But there’s so many different things you’ve done now in your life and then what you’re focused on, and I’m excited to let our audience hear all about it.

[01:27] Drew:

Well, I, uh, appreciate that. And yeah, the, the book, like you said, really wasn’t about being an author. It was trying to let my grandkids and their kids understand who I was and, you know, what I went through. ‘Cause when I lost my mom, it’s like you lose your legacy, you know. She might’ve told me who Uncle Charlie was right when I was four, doesn’t mean I remember it now. So it, it kinda changed, yes, sir. It, it, it has morphed basically into what we’ve got today.

[01:53] Scott:

Well, let’s touch, let’s touch on that. You know, you … I know you, you grew up very close to your mom. Your father passed away early on when you were young, and then you got into the construction world. You watched your mom work really hard and raise you guys. Talk a little bit about how that kinda guided you maybe into the construction industry and what you learned from your mom and how you carried that through your, through 50 years, five full decades in construction.

[02:19] Drew:

Well, you know, y- you watch, uh, you know, you watch your mom and, you know, my brother and sister were eight and 10 years younger than me, so you have to step up all of a sudden and become a, you know, the man of the family. So you watch her. You know, she didn’t, she didn’t complain. Um, she always came, came home. She always asked how we’re doing, what we could do. She always kept me in sports, you know. And I was, uh, I was five, I was supposed to be six, she enrolled me in football. So she was leading me down a path I didn’t know, you know, the team sports, the don’t let anybody down, do your job, be a part of the, you know, the success. And, and then she enrolled me in a, a faith-based school, uh, since I was in kindergarten up through sixth grade. So she was planting seeds that I absolutely had no idea what those seeds were gonna do, and, and I just followed basically the lead that she gave me in my life.

[03:06] Scott:

I love that. Had your mom always been very close in her faith and passing it on to you, or is that something she developed while you guys were growing up?

[03:16] Drew:

She, she was always strong. Um, even when her retirement years, when she got older, she was, um, doing diapers for the kids in Africa, or she was making dolls for the, the kids in Mexico. She was always supporting some sort of mission or, or Christian type based cause. So she was always extremely strong in her faith.

[03:37] Scott:

So as you grew up in that environment and you decided the field you wanted to get into, and you, you found your way into construction, what lessons learned there and from your upbringing did you carry into the construction world f- one, for yourself, and then as you started to lead teams and projects? How did … Talk about that.

[03:54] Drew:

You know, so I think, uh, perseverance. You, you h- you have got to continue down a path, and I’m not telling it’s the same path, right? As you well know, we start out with plan A and end up with triple Z or quadruple Z or [laughs] whatever it is.

[04:07] Scott:

That’s it.

[04:07] Drew:

So your perseverance, right, to be able to pick up and say, “This didn’t work. Let’s go here. Let’s try this.” So sh- I, I watched the perseverance, right? She never quit. There, there was no quit in her bone, right? She’d figure out how to make sure the store was taken care of so that she could be at my football games or any of my sporting events. So the perseverance to me was the most important thing that she taught me, you know, especially in construction, ’cause w- you know, we handle a thousand problems a day. Nothing’s perfect. Uh, I’m gonna … The engineers are gonna hate me when I say this, but the design, because a CAD is not what it is, you know, you have 1,000 RFIs instead of 20.

[04:41] Drew:

So you have to have the perseverance and the drive to say, “I’m gonna get through this, and it’s gonna be okay, but I have to get to the end.”

[04:49] Scott:

You know, with your experience and what you just said, I’m curious of one thing. You know, in our business we see and work with purely commercial construction contractors, and what you just said is exactly something that I hear many, many, many of them say. One of the things that never comes out is about the finance aspects of construction. Now, when I say that, I mean they all, everyone talks about the difficulty in getting paid and the cash flow cycle. All that is well documented and known. But what I mean is the perseverance to figure that out in a world where it’s not necessarily part of the process. You know, learning how to suffer and persevere through the heat, the cold, being at high altitudes, being at low altitudes, all the stuff where things are built, you know, eq- heavy equipment, all that takes perseverance.

[05:41] Scott:

But the financial aspects of it, in order to have a successful business and team, you have to ultimately figure out, or they become the demise of any business, especially it can happen in construction. How did you apply some of those principles to the in the office side, you know, or the back office side of things?

[05:59] Drew:

Well, you know, it’s, it’s kinda like you said. So I’ve, I’ve been really a subcontractor probably 47 to 48 years of my 50. I’m just kinda now with a large GC kinda helping them on their self-performed sites. They’ve, they’ve been a self-performed concrete contractor for 70 years. So especially on a subcontractor side, right, you’re expelling, uh, 60 days worth of labor, you’re expelling 30 days worth of material and equipment before sometimes you ever get paid in that cycle. So I had a very deep appreciation early on as a sub because we’re the ones spending the money, ’cause you know GC’s not gonna pay you till he gets paid. So GC has a, a 5% or 6%, maybe 8% outlay of cash while we’ve got 100, you know, basic going into it. So that side is, is critical mass, just like you talked about. Because cash flow is, is either… The one thing I learned by, by a good leader a long time ago, cash is king, right? I know everybody hears it, but I’m sorry, cash is king.

[06:55] Drew:

If you do not have enough cash in the bank to be able to fund and to look ahead knowing that your draw’s gonna be 45 to 60 days, you’re not gonna make it, no matter how much profit you think you’re gonna make. So you hit on a, a really hard topic for a subcontractor, that if they don’t understand, uh, or make a cash flow model, be with somebody like yourself or a funding operation that can help them through some of the hard times. Because you know like I know, I’m gonna make a mistake, owner’s gonna get mad, they’re gonna hold the GC’s money, the GC’s gonna hold the sub’s money, and now I don’t have any money coming in. So you hit a really important topic if you’re ever gonna succeed being a sub, even a GC.

[07:33] Scott:

So, you know, if you were to look, if you were to talk to that subcontractor now, the younger version of yourself or the ones you speak to today, who are doing well, you know, they got the trade down. They, you know, when everything’s, when they have the right, when labor’s there, materials are there, I mean, they, they build and make a phenomenal product, whatever trade they’re in. What do you tell that contractor who’s focused on revenue, gr- growing their business, and they have that, you know, what do they call it, like spit and vinegar in them, you know, they’re excited, and they just don’t know what’s coming next? That, and it usually in my world I see that happening between a few million dollars of revenue on your way to 20, depending on how fast you’re growing. Those are the spots where people start to, a great contractor starts to die, and they don’t know it. What do you tell that person at that moment to protect them?

[08:25] Drew:

Well, number one, don’t go at a boat, go buy a boat, don’t go buy a sports car-

[08:29] Scott:

[laughs]

[08:29] Drew:

… don’t go buy the new house, you know, because i- as we all well know, right, it, whether it’s in our business or somebody else’s, the first five years is critical mass. You know, don’t plan on making any money, just try to keep money within the bank. Try to make sure you got a reserve, make sure you have a backup plan. And I’ll take it a step further I think in where you were going. You have to look ahead. Y- you have to forecast, right? So as a, as a subcontractor, in the large scale industrial projects that we did, I had about a six-month window. When I landed a job, it lasted for about six months, so I had a six-month window to figure out where was the next project or projects that we needed to do. Because you know as I know, Scott, I, you’re not just responsible for the bottom line, you’re responsible for all those families out there that are relying on you to make the right decisions.

[09:13] Scott:

Mm-hmm.

[09:14] Drew:

So I, I would tell you you have to look ahead, you have to forecast. You’ve got to understand I’m making a million today, but you could lose 2 million tomorrow. So you better have a little cash and a little foresight and look ahead about what’s next and what’s down the road.

[09:28] Scott:

Where, in your experience, where did you find the best pathways for con- you know, commercial contracts, subcontractors specifically, to, to take that initiative and shift from, “Okay, I’m gonna spend these dollars on the finance team, these reports,” things that don’t just show, they don’t show up necessarily in the field putting concrete in the ground or removing dirt, you know, or whatever trade. It doesn’t happen, and sometimes I s- I’ve seen so much resistance to that, or they’ve just had a bad outcome or bad experience and they, they just don’t invest in that.

[10:03] Drew:

So there’s two answers to what you just said. I’ll start with the last one. You talked about, hey, they had a bad outcome. I can’t tell you how many times in my life, right, things go wrong. Okay, we got it. We’re gonna fix it. But, but what they do is they take that pendulum that was basically straight up and down and they switch it all the way to the right. So they, instead of adjusting just a little to tweak it, they go, “Oh, but we’re just not gonna do that anymore because it failed the first time.” Well, here’s Victor’s rule. Any time you do anything the first time, it’s how many zeroes behind the one did you fail, ’cause you are going to fail ’cause you didn’t understand.

[10:35] Scott:

Mm-hmm.

[10:35] Drew:

But just tweak it a little bit. And then kinda back to where you were talking about on that, that first subject matter, you know, I, I still believe that you’ve got to be able to understand that we ma- I- if, if, let’s be honest, a construction for the risk that you take is a very small fee in value, right? Because we take on, and think of it as a sub, we take on all the risk. Why? Because all the contracts have a flow down requirement from the owner that was negotiated by the GC that really doesn’t care because he flows it all down to the sub and said, “You’re responsible.” So you have to look at these risks versus rewards. So how do you handle that? Without a good legal team, without, without a good back of the house legal team, without a good CEO, financial advisor, uh, accountant, whatever you wanna call it at whatever level you’re at, that can keep you in charge. And I’ll give you one of the most important things I’ve seen in most of my career.

[11:27] Drew:

Most subcontractors do not understand if they made money today or not. They don’t understand their cost. There is no mechanism made for them that they can say, “I had a dollar per linear foot in my unit, and today I did a buck 10. Okay, not terrible. Hey, Fred,” my superintendent, “how are we gonna adjust this? Let’s talk about what we can do.” All they look at is every month they’ll pull up a set of financials and they’ll go, “Ooh, I made money this month.” Well, maybe it’d be really important to try to figure out why you made money, and then can I repeat the same process over and over again?

[11:58] Scott:

Yeah. It’s interesting, and you, you hit the nail on the head because what happens a lot of times if you’re not forecasting Then what happens is you start to move through and you’re actually doing okay. Maybe you get some over-billings, you get a bill ahead a little bit. But if you don’t know how much of the project… And I love what you said about the risk, and I, I think it ties directly with the investment you’re gonna make.

[12:21] Scott:

And they’re always like, “Well, what’s the, my investment?” I’m like, “Your investment is, how much of your cost in the bid do you actually have to put out on this project before the project is paying for itself?”

[12:32] Drew:

Sure.

[12:33] Scott:

Cash flowing itself, what- whatever term you wanna use. And you can have the same project with the same 20% margin, and you have to invest 100% of that cash expense before you get paid or earn your money. Or sometimes you might have the right lineup of terms and schedule and subs out of, out of your way, and you might end up only having to invest 250,000 to make the same 20%. And if you don’t know the difference of when that’s gonna occur, that’s what happens when you get midway out on a job, and you’ve got everyone asking you for money, and you’re totally upside down, and you can’t make payroll, and you’re saying to yourself, “If everyone would just pay me, I’d be fine.” That’s the difference maker.

[13:13] Drew:

[laughs]

[13:13] Scott:

Like, so the forecasting prevents you from that moment where everything was going smooth until pay-up three and four, and you’re not paid yet, and you’re totally out of cash.

[13:23] Drew:

Well, and it, it, it ties into being a good contractor, right? You know, a schedule is made as a roadmap. Doesn’t mean you’re gonna follow it, but that’s your roadmap. Nobody takes that schedule as their roadmap and then plugs it into a financial analysis that said, “I’m expecting that my draw is gonna be 100,000 this month, 200,000 next month,” right? So you’re forecasting your draws based on your schedule. Then you’re looking at that schedule based on the work you’ve gotta do, and you’re putting your cost in for your labor, your equipment, any subcontracts you might have, and that’s where your financial analysis comes from. And, and I [laughs] I can’t tell you how many people don’t take that time to look ahead so that they understand what cash crunch is gonna be. ‘Cause like you said, it might be halfway through, it might be 90% through before you become positive. It just depends on your terms and how the job’s going.

[14:14] Scott:

Yeah. I’m gonna tell you a story. So when, when, um, I started this business, we had some frie- me and a couple friends had started it. They’ve all, like, they all f- are not here anymore. But [laughs] but that’s a different story. But nonetheless, we were assuming that the contract would just pay out, just kinda like the contractor does. You know, you do the work, you get paid, everything’s gonna work out. We learned really quickly, through some pain, that you have to understand the cash flow of the project if you’re gonna effectively help a contractor execute the work. And what you just said, the bid and the schedule, and marrying the two together, is the cash flow forecast. I- you need all three things to really run a great job. But every- what I love is everybody has the other, they have the two. They know the bid, ’cause you have to bid it in order to win it, and you have to have a schedule in order to keep it.

[15:06] Scott:

We take that third part and said, “Okay, if we can do the third part, then we can actually show everybody in advance what that looks like.” And you know what we learned, Victor, is that people don’t… Everyone gives contractors a bad rap that they make bad decisions and do stupid stuff. It’s not really that. It’s they’re operating with the absence of information, and you just touched on that. And then we, we… I can confirm that that is accurate across thousands of different projects we’ve seen and done and built cash flows for. When you give a contractor the information, they actually are some of the best and most knowledgeable people of what to do to solve the problem, which touches on your very first point, as soon as they see it. And when we show those options to them and they see them, they know, “You know what? I’m not gonna go to that supplier. I’m gonna go to this supplier. I’m gonna move my sub labor to this mark.

[15:56] Scott:

I’m gonna switch the schedule to this.” I mean, it’s like, it’s not just like a whim. I mean, they are real value tools. And it was so impressive to me, because I sat in big giant corporations for, in the medical device world prior to this business, and I’d watch, you know, on paper, really smart people have all, all the information and couldn’t make a decision. Like, did- not only didn’t know what, but couldn’t make one. But construction contractors, not only are they good at making them, it, they, they, they execute on them. So it’s like this information, and you’ve said this now three or four times already in our t- first 20 minutes, that’s the key.

[16:34] Drew:

It, it, it, it absolutely is. You know, the, when I’m teaching or mentoring, you know, somebody young in, in our field, you know, I’ll, I’ll tell them, I said, “You have to make a decision, because procrastination costs us money. General conditions are flowing out the window, you know, et cetera, et cetera.” And I tell them, I said, “Now, that doesn’t mean it’s an uninformed decision. That means you talk to Fred, Pete, whoever’s the expert. Maybe you do Google it. Okay, not my favorite thing, but maybe there’s information. Call your supplier. Call h- who is supplying this product for you? They’ve gotta be the expert.” So we have to gather information, but what you said is true. We have to make a decision, you know? And hopefully it’s right. If not, we’re gonna tweak it and go down the road.

[17:10] Scott:

It’s so awesome. I mean, I, I, I love that part of it. Well, let me transition for a second. So you’ve, you’ve learned all these lessons from growing up. Your mom had a big role in your life. She gave you some great foundational wisdom. You put yourself in an environment on a construction site in an industry that, that’s only gonna fine-tune that. And now you’re, you’ve opened a ranch. You’ve probably had the ranch for a long time, but you’ve opened the ranch, and now you’re giving back. You have a big heart, and I can see it on you, and, and you talked about this initially. You want, you know to give. And g- by giving, you’re able to receive. How did you, where did you learn that originally? And I, it probably came from your mom, but with af- but how did you apply it to not only your work, but your, at, when you were an individual contributor in construction, as a leader in construction, as a leader of your ranch, as, as in writing your book?

[18:04] Scott:

Where did you learn that that is the path?

[18:08] Drew:

So I, I can’t tell you that I realized it early, you know, because I started out technically on a nuclear power plant, uh, delivering water to 10,000 people. I was a true water boy when I started out in construction, you know? So as you grow up into construction, and especially I would say in the times that we did, you know, the shovel on the back of your butt saying, “Hey, you know, mm, mm, y- y- what are you doing,” right? So those lessons taught me some things about, is this the person that I wanna be, right? Do, do I wanna demand or do I wanna understand? Like, like the very first question I think I remember asking the guys, “Well, what do you, what do you want me to do,” right? “Just tell me. You want 10,000 linear foot done? Okay, well, just give me a d- … You just need to work harder, boy.” So some of those lessons were grounded there.

[18:56] Drew:

But it really, it really was probably, I don’t know, 20 years into my career, which, um, great owner that I worked for, started out with nothing. I think they’re 2.2 billion right now. Um, he sent me to fails management. He sent me basically up to, to do the, to do the you need to straighten your act up, Victor, act, right? So you do all the 360s, right? You … And, and they start off with good. It’s a brainwashing. You, you learn this after the fact, 10 o’clock at night when you fly in, right? And you learn, oh, Victor’s gonna take the hill, I’ll march with him anyway. Then you start seeing the other stuff, which is Victor needs to understand he’s got two ears and one mouth. He needs to understand that little Hitler doesn’t rule the world. I mean, they just beat you up, right? So at that second in time, you only have two choices in your life. They’re liars or it’s the truth, and you’ve gotta do something about it.

[19:43] Drew:

And I made that decision at that point in time that, that I had to change who I was. And then, uh, I would say another 10 years in the journey, um, I met a consultant, um, that actually had been with the company I was with for a while, kind of as a consultant off to the side, and he started teaching me servitude leadership. So I, I give both of those two the credit for saying, “Victor, you need to change. You need to understand what’s going on.” And I would say 30 years into my career, as I started, you know, getting into an executive leadership and all that is, is when I started changing.

[20:15] Scott:

It’s funny. Um, one, I love that, and you’re right. It takes a couple good experiences. Sometimes it’s with people, sometimes it’s with a group of people. Sometimes it’s just in a problem that you can’t handle yourself, and you figure it out. But it is the path. I’ve learned that in, um, our business here, too, um, v- in very similar ways. And you can … You, you get so much of what you’re looking for and all the success by giving than you ever do taking. And it’s … Until you can grasp that concept, um, even if you’re winning, you’re s- y- that’s the reason why you’re still miserable, but you’re still, but you’re w- even when you’re on paper winning. And, um, it’s great to see that. And I think construction contractors, I wish they would learn that as well. Like show up on that site and just focus on performing and do your best and be a solution-oriented person. Don’t worry if you’re getting screwed or someone else is getting screwed. I mean, pay attention to that.

[21:11] Scott:

But show up first to just provide and give, pr- give solutions. Don’t worry if, “That’s not my job. This is his, someone else’s job.” Just, just be the solution person. Make everyone else’s life easier. And I think the reason I always talk about that is in a world where expectations are lower, you have the opportunity now to shine faster, you know? And, [laughs] and everyone’s gonna recognize that subcontractor and their team on a project that’s out there just trying to help everybody. And do … By helping everybody, they’re doing great work, too. You gotta perform. And you’re gonna all of a sudden get … How does that translate into better terms? Well, they’re gonna want you on the job. You’re gonna get better terms. How’s that gonna get favoritism to schedules, to lifts, to cranes if you need them, to whatever? I promise you it’s gonna [laughs] but, but you don’t know that until you do it.

[22:03] Drew:

No, I, I agree. You know, every, every general contractor’s looking for a good sub.

[22:07] Scott:

Mm-hmm.

[22:08] Drew:

And, and it’s about a relationship, right? Uh, I, I try to tell all the group, too, you can’t have 10 relationships. In other words, I can’t have 10 suppliers, right, that are doing concrete. Maybe have three. Maybe … Because if I need a favor, right? That’s the one thing I used to tell a, um, uh, a salesperson that’d come in my door. I said, “I’m gonna sit down and I wanna have a conversation with you so you hear where I’m going really quick. You’re not here just to sell me something. You’re here when I need you. So when I call you and I’ve got a problem, you’re gonna be there to solve my problem. You’re just not here to sell me something.” So that philosophy is about a partnership, right? And, and I’m a partner with you, you’re a partner with me. I’m gonna help you, you’re gonna help me. GCs have the same thing. They, they cannot build anything without a good subcontractor, and their name and their reputation is based upon how good they pick their trade partners.

[22:53] Scott:

That’s right.

[22:53] Drew:

So what you said i- is so true. And, and it’s hard, right? It is hard. It is hard when you get on a job site, you know, and everything’s kinda going bad, and the, the GC’s got his foot on your throat. Well, as a good subcontractor, I’ve got several different rules. I always make sure that I suggest to the GC, and it’s his idea, I don’t care, but it’s gonna be your idea. Look ahead for him. Don’t wait until they pin you in a corner, and then they say, “Now you need to work overtime and figure it out.” And it’s the, and it’s the gold rule about the king. He who has the gold makes the rules, so get used to it.

[23:22] Drew:

[laughs]

[23:23] Scott:

Yeah. If you just accept those things, you’ll, you can be at a lot more peace.

[23:26] Drew:

Y- you can. You don’t fight yourself anymore. You don’t get mad about it. You just go to him. And I had another one, which is I’m gonna give you 10 to get one. I gotta give the general contractor 10 things to get the one thing that I need. I do that in neg- now I’m fixing to give away some secrets. I, I do that in my negotiation of contracts for years. I might mark up or red line 30 things. I really only want four. But if I’m giving him 26 back, he’s gon- sometimes a little more leaning on me on the four that I want.

[23:50] Scott:

That’s true. No, that’s very true. And, and knowing what’s important to you in those four is the key, too. You don’t need everything. Don’t argue over everything. You know, you mentioned something about, um, the subcontractor/GC relationship, and it’s, it’s a dynamic that is, you know, one of the most fascinating in probably any relationship world w- you could compare. What do you tell the commercial subcontractor who Has more of a scarcity mentality than a, um, than an optimist, you know? Where they’re … So they’re going to the GC like, “Oh, if I don’t accept this, they’re gonna throw me off the job. If I don’t accept this, I won’t get paid. If I don’t accept this, I’ll never get another job.” All of that’s not true. That’s in their own mind. But how do you, how do you talk to that contractor who wants that jo- GC job, they really need that project, and they’re worried? What do you tell them that has that mindset to shift them out of it?

[24:47] Drew:

I’ll, I’ll start off with contracts. Um, I think in 50 years, I have not been able to negotiate one contract. That didn’t mean I gave in. That means I negotiated the contract. Now, to play the game, and it is a game, you have to understand which season it is. When, when work is scarce, right, then basically the GCs are on top. When there’s a lot of work and the sub-trades are busy, the subs are on top. So understand the seasons of the year helps you start n- start with your negotiating tactics on what you’re gonna do. But the other part is so true. You know, I, I, [scoffs] I remember when I was with a drilling company, and all the drillers would just sign the contracts, right? The broad form indemnities and on and on and on, right? And I got them all in a meeting one time. I said, “This is, this is not coercion, gentlemen. We’re not talking about price gouging.

[25:44] Drew:

But we are gonna talk about let me teach you about a contract and what you’re fixing to put your neck in the noose for your own company.” So some of it is education, educating that there are certain things. Most good GCs will negotiate with you. Now, that doesn’t mean that you’re gonna get rid of an indemnity clause.

[26:03] Scott:

Yeah.

[26:03] Drew:

It’s not gonna happen.

[26:04] Scott:

No.

[26:04] Drew:

But they’ll take it from maybe a broad form to an intermediate, that you can, you can isolate your risk. Instead of everything that goes wrong on the contract is your fault, you could isolate it maybe just to death or problems or whatever. So I, I would tell them all the answer to any question is no if you don’t answer it. You have got to try to negotiate. Because if I don’t ask the question, it’s an immediate no. So try. And if then they’re gonna … Some are gonna bully you. And I’ll be honest with you, that’s where you’re gonna have to do the risk versus reward conversation with yourself. One of the good owners taught me as well, I will never sign a contract or put one job that is so important to risk my company. You’re gonna have to make those risk versus reward decisions. And, and they’re not easy, right? ‘Cause we all understand that, you know, we still have to have the next job in, in a relevant term, right?

[26:54] Drew:

In a relevant term for the cash to continue because your retainage is still hung out there for two or three years sometimes, right? So I do understand, but you have got to understand that everybody normally will negotiate with you at some point in time.

[27:09] Scott:

Mm-hmm. And you made a good point, too. You can’t just take the job to take it because the risk is too high, especially if you put your whole company out there. And when you go in, if you do all that, especially with the scarcity mindset attached to it, you’re really setting yourself up for the first thing that goes wrong, you’re gonna get hammered. And then your entire company can go, go under, and now all those families are hurting. And on the flip side of that is walking away. But what I think is important to grasp, and you mentioned this, and we talked about this a little bit, when you go into those negotiations, though, with a history of performance and your whole team focuses on making projects better and helping the project regardless of what, if it’s your trade or someone else’s, I’m just gonna solve problems and do a great job, it is way easier to negotiate than is if you are out there just getting work done and doing the bare minimum, or even if you’re doing just your job.

[28:07] Drew:

Well, and I’ll, I’ll just add on to what you said. If you’ve done your due diligence, which is you’ve negotiated the contract the best way you could, and then you go do what you said, now I’m gonna do the best a job I can for them. I’m gonna look ahead. I’m gonna take care of the general contractor. Guess what happens to that contract? Stays in a drawer. Nobody ever sees it. Nobody ever brings it out. No threats. You get paid. You go down the road. So, so what you said is extremely important. You, you need to understand that rule again of who has the gold. I don’t have the gold. The king has the gold, [laughs] which is the GC. So you better understand it. You better work toward helping him. You better work toward being the best subcontractor you can for that GC, and then everything, like you said, starts falling in line. Better terms. Maybe I can get my, uh, retainage, you know, when I’m done instead of when the project is done.

[28:56] Drew:

There’s so many things you can get out of performing well for your general contractor.

[29:00] Scott:

Yeah, you get a ton. And it works the exact opposite. If you are a risk on the job, they’re gonna hold everything to the last minute ’cause they’ve gotta hedge their risk against, of you, against the, the rest of the job, and that’s the problem.

[29:13] Drew:

Yes, sir. And if you’re the first to went in, like I’ve … What I’ve done most of my life is concrete, right? So between dirt and us and under- underground utilities, right, we’re the first in. So we’re the first to get our money withheld, and if you keep screwing up because I pour that last curb two years later, right-

[29:29] Scott:

Mm-hmm

[29:29] Drew:

… then I’m not gonna get my money till another six months to a year [laughs] after that, so.

[29:34] Scott:

That’s right.

[29:34] Drew:

Yes, sir. Due diligence and trying to be the best sub that you can, I think, is exceptional.

[29:39] Scott:

I love it. So let me, let me, uh, change gears on. Now let’s go to your book. What made you take all this great information that you’ve built on your life’s lessons and say, “You know what? I wanna get this into a memoir for my grandchildren,” which has now turned into a book. What, what, what, as you know, writing isn’t easy. It’s a big project. What made you wanna do that?

[30:03] Drew:

I don’t know. I was, uh, be honest with you, I was having to babysit a job in, uh, in South Dakota that they sent me up on, so you’re sitting in a hotel room, you know, for four nights a week. [laughs] I’m sitting there kinda just going like, “Okay, well, you know, I don’t go to the bar. I don’t drink, so what are you gonna do, Victor?” And, uh, and then, you know, my kids and my grandkids, you know? And, and I don’t get to spend as much time as I’d like to since we moved out to the ranch, because now I’m two hours away from them, you know? So it just, the thing started running through my brain, my mom, you know, thinking of my mom. Um, I’ll, I’ll give you one that, that why I, I would say is a big part of it. I found out that I’m actually an eighth-generation Texan, that my family was one of the original 300 settlers that Stephen F. Austin gave land grants to back in the 1840s. So it kinda started bringing something more in me.

[30:52] Drew:

Like, there’s a legacy here, and the legacy is, is really, you know, my family. It’s not what I’ve done. It’s, it’s the family, you know? So everybody needs to know that. So it kinda rolled into that. And then as you’re probably aware… Well, back up a little bit, too. So part of the nonprofits we support on the ranch is, is veterans, right? We, a guy named Gordon Melton, 20-year founder of Hunting with Soldiers, right? So a- as I was talking, uh, to him, he’s letting me know about PTSD and, and, uh, you know, 23, 22 to 23 suicide deaths, you know, a year from, from, uh, the veterans. Well, construction has 50, and I had absolutely no earthly idea about that. So y- now you start putting this into it, men’s health. You know, I look at my transition, because you could cut my neck off and I wasn’t gonna cry. Wasn’t gonna happen. That’s just not what a man does. And then my wife starts changing me, and you start realizing that you can’t have empathy and be a man at the same time.

[31:47] Drew:

So it all just started rolling out, you know, and it started making me think. And, and I’ll give you another thing about what a memoir does to you. It makes you really understand you either lie or you tell the truth. So I probably had to confront some things in failed marriages and really say the truth instead of point a finger maybe to somebody else. So there was a lot of stuff going through my brain as I was starting to write this, like, “Maybe I can make a difference, and Victor, you’re gonna have to acknowledge some things in your life.”

[32:15] Scott:

Yeah, it’s, um… Y- you made a good point there. When you start writing things down, just writing it down, it’s a, it’s like another level of you realize the story you’ve been telling yourself [laughs] might not be so true-

[32:27] Drew:

[laughs]

[32:27] Scott:

… when you put it down. [laughs] You’re like, “It’s easier to s- it’s easiest to say in my head. It’s harder to s- it’s a little harder to say out loud, but if I write it down, it’s almost like the stopping point. You can’t, it’s like you can’t, uh-“

[32:38] Drew:

Yeah. Yeah, because I-

[32:38] Scott:

That’s really cool

[32:39] Drew:

… I don’t wanna be known as a liar, never do, you know? So that, that really kinda hit me pretty hard, where I was like, “You’re just gonna have to tell the truth, and it’s gonna have to be exactly the way it is.” But you’re right, and I, y- and the things I realized, which, back to men’s mental health a little bit, too, and I can’t remember if it’s a 10-step or a 12-step program now with, like, drugs or alcohol, but what’s the first step you have to take? You gotta admit, right?

[33:03] Scott:

Confront it.

[33:03] Drew:

“I have a problem.” So that was, like, one of those confronting things for me, too, another, you know, life-changing thing of, “Victor, you, you might’ve thought that’s what the story [laughs] was, but now here’s the real truth. You need to confront it.” So yes, sir, being an author is a whole lot tougher than what I thought [laughs] it was gonna be.

[33:19] Scott:

Well, it’s amazing sometimes how God works on your heart, and, uh, what you thought you were doing [laughs] for someone else, you end up really doing for yourself.

[33:27] Drew:

Yes, sir. True statement.

[33:29] Scott:

It’s cool. Um, you know, one of the things about mental health in construction, too, is I think it goes, entrepreneurship is tough. Um, running a business is tough. Being, leading teams is tough. Military’s tough. There are so many hard things to do. Being a parent is tough. You know, it’s, what people somehow believe, and, uh, this I’m speaking for myself, is that you’re, you’re all alone. Like, you get this lonely feeling. And what, and what a good group does, and not just friends, but if you can find a good group, whether it’s an entrepreneurial group, a business group, a friendship group, and, and everyone’s honest with each other, you realize you’re, you’re all dealing with the same stuff. You just talk about it. And then once you feel normal, it’s a lot easier to, like, admit to yourself that, “This is what I’m doing wrong,” you know? “I’m not, I’m not really all by myself.” You know, you’re not nearly as bad as you think you are.

[34:20] Scott:

You’re also not nearly as good as you think you are. But you’re nev- you’re definitely not as bad as you think you are. And so, and you’re not alone. [laughs] And those things are so important, and I think that if you can get to that concept faster, you can save a lot of mental health, um, issues by not making people feel alone or going to pick them up when you can see it, especially guys that are, um, especially for guys who are a little older. You know, I’m, I turned 50. I’m gonna be 51. But, you know, look back and grab the 35, 40-year-old man. You know what he’s thinking. He got three kids that are under seven, you know, you know what kind of anger is going on in his mind. He’s, he’s there, you know? And if he’s not there, he’s gonna be there. [laughs] So just share it, you know? Like, get it out.

[35:03] Drew:

Well, I think you touched on one of the biggest thing about men’s health. So if you think about how we were raised, right? You fall down, ride, f- if you ride your bicycle, you fall down. What’s the first thing they say? ” Wipe your tears and get up.”

[35:15] Scott:

Get up.

[35:15] Drew:

“Keep going,” right?

[35:16] Scott:

Mm-hmm.

[35:17] Drew:

So we’ve learned to suppress things, but, but what we don’t do is we don’t talk. And here’s the thing I found out, too, and if you do talk and the one person you talk to shuts you down, you’re never gonna talk again. So you talked about this circle of friends and somebody that you can talk to, because again, what, what, what did we talk about? I have to admit. Well, if you can just get it out, I solve a lot of my problems just by having a conversation. “Oh, well, did I say that? Well, okay.” Right? So we have to talk as men. Uh, you know, I laugh at my [laughs] wife all the time. “Well, what’d you and Fred talk about?” We were, y’all were fishing. We didn’t talk about nothing.” “Oh, come on. Y’all talk, we talk about everything.” The woman does have a point, right? If we would just talk a little bit to somebody you can trust and say, “Man, I’m just having some issues.” Sometimes it’s just a sounding board, right?

[36:01] Drew:

We don’t have to solve the problem, but we heard it in our head, and we start working through those issues once we get it out.

[36:08] Scott:

Yeah, I have a mentor. I remember I was pouring something out to him one time, and I, I of course thought it was the most unique problem ever. [laughs]

[36:16] Drew:

[laughs]

[36:16] Scott:

His response, he started kinda laughing, and, uh, he goes, “Hey, man, congratulations.” “Why?” He goes, “Sounds like you’re on the perfect path. Totally normal. You’re just like everybody else.” I was like… It was, but it was like, it was funny, but it was also, like, kind of reassuring. I’m like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “Yeah, that’s, that’s normal. That’s what happens. And guess what’s gonna happen again next? This, this, this, and this.” I’m like, “Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Of course, they all come true.” None of it’s good, but at least it’s, you don’t think you’re, like, it’s… When you know it’s normal or it’s something that is gonna happen for whatever it is you’re doing. Again, even if you’re just a parent, you know, you’re gonna have a teenager look at you and tell you that they don’t like you and you’re terrible. And if, if you take it too seriously, [laughs] you’re, you’re gonna, it’s not gonna feel good. You’re like, “I just ruined my whole life.

[37:00] Scott:

I’ve raised this kid for 16 years. They just told me they hated me. I’m a failure,” you know? [laughs] It’s like-

[37:05] Drew:

[laughs]

[37:06] Scott:

… you don’t get that out and you wear that for another-

[37:09] Drew:

Yeah

[37:09] Scott:

… two years, you know? You need somebody to tell you, you need somebody who has a 19 or 20-year-old be like, “Oh, yeah, man, they said that to me, too. It’s, you just suffer through it two, three years, they’ll come right back to you.” You know, like, you need… But guys don’t do that all the time, but it’s important. And just take that in every context, business-

[37:24] Drew:

Yeah

[37:24] Scott:

… friendships, the work, all of it.

[37:27] Drew:

Yes, sir.

[37:28] Scott:

Right. Yeah.

[37:28] Drew:

Totally agree, 100%.

[37:30] Scott:

Good point.

[37:30] Drew:

Yes, sir.

[37:32] Scott:

Well, Victor, I love talking to you, man. I, I wanna, I wanna ask you one last question. So if you think about the construction folks that are out there listening to right now, contractors, leaders, they’re listening and they’re grinding through all these hard years right now, what would you want them to understand about the difference between really building a business, like we’ve talked about today, and your legacy versus just grinding? You know, just keep suffering. Like, what would you, what can we gr- what would you wanna tell them right now, the one thing that would be like, “I wanna build this business, build your legacy,” break them out of it. What’s the thing you could leave with them?

[38:12] Drew:

One is gonna be okay, but back to where we talked about, you know, a plan. And in financial is, I mean, it’s just huge. You know, we, we, uh, we put 100% of our money on the line for somewhere between, it depends on the size of the companies, you well know, but somewhere between 5 and 12%, uh, return, you know? And if you’re a little smaller, maybe it’s 20. Maybe, you know, if you’re a million-dollar company, it’s, it’s 50%. So you put, your risk versus reward is extremely high, right, in, in what we do. So one, it is gonna be okay. Two, if you have a plan to be able to get through that. And the third one is try to get yourself surrounded by what you were saying, this team of people, right, that can help walk you through it, right? What, what’s the first thing I tell everybody that I mentor? What you build tomorrow, you never built today. What you build the next day, you never built the day after that.

[39:04] Drew:

We constantly, constantly do something we’ve never done, so there’s going to be issues and gonna be problems. But the more you get out in front, try to understand, try to get the situation handled, the more you’re gonna be able to drive your ship. If not, that ship’s gonna drive you into the, into a rock. It’s gonna sink, and you’re not even gonna know what happened before it did.

[39:25] Scott:

Man, so true. And you know, as you said that, the thought that came to my mind is as a leader of a construction company, a contractor, you sit there and you think, “Well, I don’t know the finance stuff, and I don’t wanna feel stupid. I’m a business owner. I should know it,” and so you avoid it. [laughs] And what I’m here to tell you is-

[39:44] Drew:

Mm

[39:44] Scott:

… you never know what you don’t know. There’s a reason why there’s an entire degrees in college to be f- in finance or in accounting. You’re not supposed to know everything, just like you can’t know every job. And, um, your job is just to, just like you go out and hire a great superintendent, a great foreman, a leader in anything else, go just, just go hire a great construction, [laughs] f- accountant, finance person, and lead them. Let them be the expert, teach you. Let ask them the questions. And that’s okay. That’s what everyone else does. [laughs] Everyone else is doing that.

[40:17] Drew:

It is.

[40:17] Scott:

I promise. You can’t know it.

[40:18] Drew:

Well, but, a- and it’s hard, and I’ll tell you this just from the, you know, being the field side more than anything else, even though, you know, ran operations in both in and out house, right? But it’s always hard because an accountant technically is supposed to be your check and balance, right? If you’ve got a good accountant, they’re gonna say, “Hey, did you know? Hey, by the way. Hey, how come the terms are this way?” And a lot of times us on the outside are thinking, “Oh, this person just getting in my business. They don’t know what I do.

[40:44] Drew:

They’ve never swung a hammer or busted their thumb.”

[40:45] Scott:

Mm-hmm.

[40:46] Drew:

So you do, you do have to have an understanding that an accountant doesn’t run your business, but they are the best double-check to your business that you’re ever gonna have.

[40:55] Scott:

Oh, 100%. And, and that’s why you have to find someone in construction that does construction accounting and finance. Just don’t go hire any accountant. Hire that accountant that has a team of construction people and other businesses that they work. They’ve learned what these other construction owners. You can, you can glean that knowledge off of them from the other 20 businesses that they work with that might be farther ahead of you, a little bit behind you, but you can use that, um, education and resource as not just creating your finance, your, um, fin- also giving you great information and knowledge from everyone else.

[41:30] Drew:

Yes, sir. Totally agree.

[41:32] Scott:

So how can everyone find your book? Where can they buy it? How can they support you?

[41:37] Drew:

Well, I appreciate that. Uh, so one, if you would just Google Victor Bretting or The, Uh, Man That I Would Become. It’s on Amazon. It’s on Barnes & Nobles. It’s on, on any of the, the major platforms. The other way to get to me is through our, our website, which the book is on, which is brettingtexanranch.com, or if you would Google it, it’d be just b-texranch. Either way, you can get me through any of the social media platforms that we’ve got. We’re on all of them. And again, I certainly appreciate you giving me the opportunity to spread the word.

[42:08] Scott:

Oh, absolutely, man. I love it. Oh, I’m gonna definitely go get a copy of your book. I love reading, uh, I love reading good memoirs, and anything you’re gonna pull from 50 years in construction is gonna have many good nuggets in there, and I like to read, so I’ll be, I’ll be on it, no doubt.

[42:24] Drew:

Well, I appreciate that, and the one most important that I’m learning from one author to another, make sure you give me a review. [laughs]

[42:30] Scott:

Yes. Yes, those are important. Get on there and get a review. Even a b- even a bad one probably helps.

[42:37] Drew:

It does. A review, I need a review. [laughs] Yes, sir.

[42:41] Scott:

I love it, Victor. Well, everybody, let’s get out there. Find Victor. You can find him on LinkedIn. You can find him on the other social platforms. Definitely support his ranch, all of his causes. Grab a copy of the book. You can of course see us, if you’re listening on the audio platform, you can see this whole interview on, uh, video on our YouTube channel at Mobilization Funding. You can also find me on LinkedIn at mobilizationfunding.com. You can find this episode. In the meantime, everyone, I wish you all a great week, and may God bless you.

[43:11] Scott:

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